European Parliament, kipper, Lord Pearson of Rannoch, marital rape, meme, Michael Abberton, Mike Sivier, mikesivier, mislead, Nigel Farage, people, police, policies, policy, politics, Scriptonite, The Axe of Reason, Thomas Evans, threat, UKIP, vote, Vox Political
Shortly after Vox Political posted Embarrassment for UKIP as hypocrisy is exposed in the local press, the blog’s Facebook page received a message from one Thomas Evans.
It isn’t VP policy to name names usually, but this gentleman’s tone was so aggressive that he deserves to be identified. On his own FB page he describes himself as ‘Belligerent Ruler of the Planet Earth’. You are encouraged to visit if you want to enjoy more of his pearls of wisdom, such as: “Mental. Thankyou very much to the lefty anti-UKIP article someone posted the other week listing me in the top 8 ‘worst UKIP tweeters’ my Twitter following gave me a much needed boost from fellow Kippers!”
He’s right – that is mental. Or maybe they are…
His communication with me was as follows (in fact the first is much the same as a comment he posted to the blog itself): “The UKIP picture you have published as an article was created by a Green Party member/supporter before the European and Council Elections.
“It’s so outdated it’s cringeworthy.”
Let’s just pause for a moment and look at the caption under the image, which states that “Most of the links on this now-infamous meme have been taken down by UKIP members, anxious to hide the embarrassing facts they revealed. The vote in favour of marital rape is not so easily removed as it is recorded on the European Parliament’s official website.” It explains perfectly adequately that matters have moved on since the image was created.
Back to Mr Evans, who asks: “Are you just recycling out info to damage UKIP or are you genuinely just that out of date?!”
Neither. I was using it as a direct example of the way UKIP behaves.
“The picture makes use of 2010 manifesto policies which have long since been abandoned.
“UKIP’s 2015 General Election manifesto doesn’t come out until September. Same goes for the other parties if you hadn’t realised. So how on Earth can you be critical about any parties policies for an election when they haven’t even been released yet?!
“In fact the only certain policies released by UKIP aren’t mentioned anywhere in your article or that picture so are you intentionally trying to be misleading?!”
You will know, Dear Reader, that this ground has been covered very thoroughly already – here, for example, and also here and here.
So Yr Obdt Srvt was very sure of his ground when he responded: “I checked the accuracy of the information contained in the meme and was able to substantiate everything except the claim about cutting education funding to build aircraft carriers.
“Just because this information has since been taken down (to eliminate embarrassment for the party?) that does not make it any less valid.
“Don’t waste my time with the argument about the manifesto.
“And don’t waste my time with suggestions that I am trying to be misleading. It is UKIP that has tried to mislead the public, and it is UKIP that is desperately trying to cover up its policy indiscretions.”
Alas – as noted in my article earlier today, Kippers don’t like to let the facts get in their way. Mr Evans got back to me with the following:
“Eliminate what embarrassment?
“You are referring to past policies as current policies in your article.”
No. He inferred that, but the line “Policies put forward by UKIP or by high-level members of UKIP include…”, although a quotation from a previous article, is as accurate now as it was when it was first typed, a couple of months ago. UKIP, or high-level members, did put forward those policies. There is no reference in today’s article to whether they are from the past or still active.
“2010 manifesto – 4 years ago for the 2010 General Election
“2015 manifesto – Released in September this year for 2015 General Election.”
None of the references in the meme – or those that were discovered when VP was researching its allegations – are from this 2010 manifesto, though. Some are from the 2013 manifesto, and some are from the party’s own policy page (now deleted, although the likelihood of eliminating embarrassment is muted by the fact that UKIP cannot say it was left there for so long by mistake and still expect to be taken seriously).
“UKIP have only divulged a handful of policies non of which are detailed on the picture you referenced.”
Perhaps they weren’t relevant to the points being made.
“What you have referenced has been discussed to death on Twitter and Facebook and even the Green Party chap who created it has admitted it is outdated information.”
We’ll get back to Mr Abberton momentarily.
“Nigel Farage party leader said 5 MONTHS AGO that the 2010 manifesto is outdated, unwanted and will not be used again policies wise for the next General Election.
“Lord Pearson of Rannoch was the party leader at the time of the 2010 election, he compiled and produced the manifesto.”
Irrelevant, for reasons mentioned above. Now we get to the grit:
“Your comment about ’embarrassing the party’ is more an ’embarrassment’ to yourself. You are referencing outdated information as if it is current policies and information. So what you are in fact doing as you have been informed to this fact by myself is lying to your readers…
“Is this what you are? A person intentionally lying to mislead the electorate? If so please tell me…
“You say that UKIP are misleading the electorate. Feel free to tell me how?
“UKIP have said on numerous occasions, varying members and reps that the 2010 manifesto is defunct and not worth the paper it is written on. It no-longer represents UKIP.
“Yet you are posting it as current information which is misleading.
“You are the liar. You have been informed and if you continue to mislead people with discredited and past policies I will make people fully aware of your willingness to do so and your willingness to mislead people for your political agenda.
“You have been warned.”
Let’s go back to Michael Abberton, the “Green Party chap” mentioned a few paragraphs ago.
He and his meme first came to attention when it was revealed that the police had been sent to visit him after UKIP complained about an entry in his own blog, The Axe of Reason. He said he knew the image had been on Twitter for a while so he had set about seeing if its claims could be verified.
In his blog discussing the police visit, far from admitting he was quoting outdated policies, he states: “All I had done is promote the party policy using links to their own sources – no editorialising, no commenting. And in fairness highlighted those allegations I could find no evidence for.”
Take a look at the date on the blog – May this year. “So outdated it’s cringeworthy“?
Mr Abberton continued: “About fifteen minutes after they left I received a threatening tweet from a party member I had had an exchange with earlier in the day. Though appearing to be no more than a party supporter, he seemed to know that the police had been involved. I copied the tweet and sent it to the police.”
So we have evidence that Kippers are willing to cause a nuisance with the police in order to silence critics who have divulged information that UKIP would rather keep quiet, and we have a Kipper who has denounced Yr Obdt Srvt as a liar (despite the evidence to the contrary) and who has “warned” that he will act against VP if the blog continues in its function, which is to provide accurate information, no matter what he asserts.
For further information on Vox Political‘s attitude to this kind of interference, see the Scriptonite blog on the same matter.
That is why he got this response: “They are not discredited policies. They are not past policies until they are replaced with something else.
“It is UKIP that is trying to mislead – the party’s attempts to shut down its critics are a clear example of this.
“Don’t think for a moment that you can threaten me. I’m fully aware that UKIP and its adherents like to throw their weight around and I am not impressed at all.
“Now you’d better get off my page before I have you slung out of Facebook for threatening behaviour.”
There will be no tolerance of any UKIP member or representative who wants to threaten this blog, Mr Evans.
That is all.
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It’s embarrassing having UKIP tw@s representing the UK at the European level. Just shows how stupid the population of the UK are in using their democratic rights. F***ing morons all of them.
Mike Sivier said:
Some of us choose to believe they were misled.
Steve Cheney said:
Misled, but then too stubborn to admit it.
Mike Sivier said:
This guy doesn’t give up.
He has sent another threatening message via Facebook as follows:
“As for threatening behaviour.
“I haven’t threatened you physically or verbally.
“I am just making you fully aware that if you continue lying about UKIP policies knowingly as you have admitted doing so above.
“I will happily provide the above details to the relevant parties and they WILL follow it up.
“Don’t you dare suggest I would make a physically abusive or verbally abusive threat to you because this is not what I have done.
“I am warning you that if you do not stop knowingly lying and misinforming people about UKIP it will be followed up by more formal means.”
All right, Mr Evans, let me spell it out for you here, as I did there:
I am NOT lying.
I am VERY sure of my ground.
I did NOT say you were threatening me physically or verbally. Your assertion that you will “happily provide the above details to the relevant parties and they WILL follow it up” is a threat.
I will not tolerate such threats.
With the language used in their messages, and the fact that they would view rape in marriage, legal, tells you what kind of sadistic bastards they are, and will be!!
I know a man who was talking about voting Ukip, until I showed him your site, his face went white with rage, and he said he felt stupid, I told him as long as he makes choices based on what he has learnt, there is nothing to feel stupid about! (I work voluntarily assisting teaching and he was a student).
Mike Sivier said:
That’s exactly what I would hope people do with this blog, Joanna. I also think your words were very well-chosen. Thanks.
Reblogged this on sdbast.
Pingback: It’s time to smoke a Kipper [Vox Political] | SLATUKIP (Still Laughing At UKIP)
Jonathan Wilson said:
You know, I just love a kippers logic…
You’re being nasty pointing out factual evidence that has now been taken down [hidden] and makes my party look like a bunch of cockwombles… so I’m defiantly going to vote for them cos you nasty to em.
That said, I think voting for any party through a form of tribalism is bad…
However I made the mistake of voting for the c**tservatives at the last GE as they seemed the best of the bunch and Gordon was a moron (I loved that song as a child) and I honestly thought we needed a change of covernment (long standing covernments tend to get complacent and think they have a mandate to do what ever the hell they like, incoming covernments tend to do things slowly in the first 3-5 years as they test the public’s mood for changes and policy) and believed the lies (no top down reorganisation of the NHS; LIE, no VAT increase; LIE, look after the poor, disabled, elderly; LIE, etc; LIE LIE LIE.) …
What I didn’t expect to get was a bunch of right wing incompetent nut jobs (eg IDS, seriously what a f***up) whose only ethos was “hammer the poor” and “if it ain’t nailed down privatise it, and if it is nailed down give it away free with the privatised service” (eg, not only was the royal mail massively undersold, if it decided to shut shop tomorrow its “owners” could still make billions in returns from the property and land portfolio that was given away for free with its sale).
Jonathan Wilson said:
PS; I’m sulking due to your use of a Red Dwarf line, seriously no one disses the Dwarf by associating it with UKIP; how very dare you 😛
Mike Sivier said:
Have you never eaten a smoked kipper, Skipper?
I’m using the phrase in its original sense, of applying heat to cook something (although one could hardly describe UKIP in terms of any foodstuff, except, perhaps, something that is extremely unpalatable).
Jonathan Wilson said:
Yes, proper Arbroath smokies… even had a Scottish friend send me them on occasion, when they’ve been in the area, just for the pure eating joy 🙂 My lad hates them
I’m confused, all your objections to the tories are based on things they also did from 1979 to 1997…. Leopards really don’t change their spots!
Mike Sivier said:
I can’t speak for anyone else, but my objections to the Tories are very firmly based on what they have done from 2010 onwards.
While your comment about leopard spots is accurate in this case, it isn’t always true – look at the way Labour embraced neoliberalism under Tony Blair, so I would warn you against false equivalence (I think that’s the relevant ‘false argument’ in this case).
Farage stated on the BBC that ‘he did not defend the party’s 2010 general election manifesto, but its 2015 policies would be “similar in flavour” – Make of that what you will… http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25867585
Excellent article as always. My mother voted UKIP at the EU elections, purely on their stance on Europe. She ignored all other policies they have in order to waste her vote on a protest vote. And thats why UKIP aare so dangerous. All the time the main parties ignore the anti EU feeling in the UK, UKIP will fleece the electorate of all common sense.
Personally, thanks to you and AAV I made damn sure I went into the polling booth knowing full well who and what I was voting for, needless to say it wasnt UKIP! If only people werent so blind and would see the overall bigger picture instead of voting as they shop, and going for the lost leader.
I too received a reply on my blog from Mr T Evans – I had reblogged the original from you and he has taken umbrage with me 😀
His reply was this:
“Facts” and “Policies” taken from a 2010 manifesto that UKIP abandoned 7 months ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxSOlj370Gw
My reply to him is this:
You truly believe that they have dropped all of their policies? Do you even know what their policies are?
You have to tell yourself that if they had those type of policies in the first place, then just what type of people they really are.
What they actually “abandoned” was their manifesto – and we have yet to hear of their “new” one.
Watch as they become cosy with the tories, after all, if Labour don’t get a majority in the election then the tories and ukip will join forces. If you think we’ve had it bad the last four years, then you will be praying for this coalition to come back!
I don’t know for sure if he’ll get back to me again, I’d like him to 🙂 If a party cannot name their policies or refer to their manifesto, then they are still with the ones that they had at the time that Farage took over.
I just hope enough people will realise just how bad a group such as Ukip are? It would be shaming for the politics that have gone on throughout the years if any Kippers made it in as an MP. It’d be like having the monster raving loony party as MP’s, only a hundred times worse!
Reblogged this on Jay's Journal and commented:
Oh dear, the Ukippers are at it again…
If you look at Evans’ FB page, you can see his ego is so enormous that he actually quotes HIMSELF.
He also boasts about the luxury foods he eats one minute, while saying it’s time “for the peasants to revolt” against the oppression of the EU.
Chris K said:
The equation being used here is Thomas + Evans + UKIP + Wales = ? . My suggested answer is that Mr.Evans thinks that by gaining a little power in local and european elections he can become a dictarship of one and a legend in his own mind? I would resist even replying to him as any publicity good or bad is welcomed oxygen to the dwindling UKIP embers that will disappear once everyone sees that voting UKIP would return the UK to dark and deadly years where a group of white male beer swilling business men carve up slices of the country for their own political and economic gains. UKIP are just Tory Max nothing else, bastards in suits who love other bastards in suits whilst pretending they are doing it all for patriotism and national pride.
Reblogged this on Britain Isn't Eating.