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benefit, benefits, cap, caution, Coalition, committee, Conservative, coward, David Frazer, Debbie Sayers, Department, Department for Work and Pensions, DWP, evidence, expel, falsehood, government, Iain Duncan Smith, Jayne Linney, John Shields, liar, lie, Mike Sivier, mikesivier, Parliament, Pensions, people, petition, politics, sick, social security, statistic, suspend, Tories, Tory, uk statistics authority, Vox Political, welfare, work
Cool your engines, everybody; it seems that Iain Duncan Smith was never going to the Work and Pensions Committee meeting in June, despite what we had all been led to believe.
This morning I received a message from Jayne Linney, one of the authors of the petition to make LieDS account for himself before the Parliamentary Committee.
It said that, in fact, he never was going to attend the committee in June/July: “This is an evidence-gathering meeting only. IDS is to attend the follow up Q&A session on September 4 when we are also submitting the petition.
“We’ve been working with Anne Begg, Sheila Gilmore and Debbie Abrahams on this and as far as I know this remains the same.”
This information supercedes the notice on Jayne and Debbie Sayers’ petition website that states, “Iain Duncan Smith will face questions by the Committee over his department’s use of statistics in June”.
I am grateful to Jayne (and Debbie, who also got in touch) for providing this corrected information. It is disappointing that the officials who have been working on this matter did not see fit to keep the public informed about developments. I know many other people, besides myself, spent much of June on tenterhooks, waiting for the meeting – with Mr… Smith – to take place and wondering why it was taking so long.
Apologies for the misinformation in my previous article – there was, of course, no intention to lead you all up the garden path (as the saying goes).
Mike Sivier's blog 
We’ve been working with Anne Begg, Sheila Gilmore and Debbie Abrahams on this and as far as I know this remains the same.”
anne begg needs to stick to the facts and how many have died in going through the welfare reform process just the one question that’s all
IDS will then and only then be stuck and then once the figure is dragged out of him and brought out in the open and only then will he be out of office and in the hands of the police
until then the sick and disabled are at risk
He won’t be stuck if she only has the one question. The trick is to know the answers in advance and then construct a series of questions in order to get the facts – cutting through any defence he might have.
With the statistics, the simple fact is that the DWP officials warned MPs not to distort the information for political purposes. It’s there in the reports.
I agree the Work and Pensions Committee needs to get enough out of him to incriminate.
It’s also about knowing the law and as Mike said, anticipating responses. Anne Begg HAS questioned IDS regarding the deaths related to welfare “reform”, as have many others. They have been brushed off ,accused of being “scaremongers” and the onus is on us to find a direct and provable correlation, unfortunately. And that is not as easy as you would thin. Meanwhile, any point of law we can get them on is good, and will serve as further supportive evidence in the future.
Chipping away and using the legal system is the best we can do. For now.
don’t MPs have a get out of jail free card, I’m sure he will wriggle out of it like the worm he is
there is no wriggle room only Anne begg allows him that privilege. Anne has a bad habit of not asking the proper question
(how many people have died going through the welfare reform process in where they have committed suicide or had a acute heart attack or other condition which has resulted in their death because of undue stress placed upon them
how many people have died when told they were fit for work but were already dead or had died days later?
that is the full question and Anne needs to stick to this guideline
I am not holding my breath! IDS has two months in which to prepare himself
for any questions put to him. And as he undoubtedly has an army of lawyers, (most probably fellow MPs) to brief him, I am not hopeful that he will incriminate himself.
I sent an email which i had copied and pasted from one of these type of sites to the IPCC asking for IDS, Esther McVey and one other MP who’s name eludes me at the moment and also asking for the Chief Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police to be prosecuted, to which i received a reply saying that no prosecution could be upheld or words to that effect…
I saw the above on Facebook a few minutes ago. Made my comment on here. Went back to see it on Facebook, and was surprised – not – that it has vanished from my screen?
As I was checking FB again….oops…it came up as I got back to the page???
I wouldn’t say “Garden Path” on the internet. Smith might decide to invent a tax for that too.
the only question Anne begg has to ask is very simple i have told her time and time again and the question is
HOW MANY SICK AND DISABLED HAVE DIED WHILE GOING THROUGH THE WELFARE REFORM PROCESS UNDER YOUR COMMAND IN WHERE THEY WERE FOUND FIT FOR WORK BUT WERE NOT AND DIED BEFORE THE ASSESSMENT OR SHORTLY AFTER WOODS THROUGH THE STRESS BROUGHT ON OR THOSE THAT COMMITTED SUICIDE IN AN ACUTE PANIC ATTACK ???????/
Anne begg if she has done her homework will know the full answers to that question of which IDS will not the reason he wont is because in law if he knew that deaths were resulting from the welfare reform bill and he failed to act he would be classed as guilty of corperte manslaughter in a court of law
By IDS not knowing what he is doing is resulting in deaths he can blame others in the DWP/ATOS for any errors getting himself off the hook
Any top lawyer will tell you thou he does know that people are dying but he doesn’t know in what the full circumstances are and that to this day is still the case he will remain distant at all times to protect himself from the full figures
Gordon brown when prime minister said on TV he was aware that people had died because of the policy’s being implemented incorrectly and then conveniently stood down from office having lost the 2010 general election
IDS will go down in history as a person who presided over a welfare reform policy that killed more people over the past 3 years then in the UK’s entire political history
IDS needs to be stopped and the only person as far as I’m aware is the prime minister who also go down in history for a prime minister that stood by and did nothing while the sick and disabled died
Only the uk’s corners know of how a person has died along with their doctor and relatives the police will also be involved in suspicious deaths where the relatives have got them involved because of continued harassment for example from the DWP in which a person has committed suicide
Reblogged this on HUMAN RIGHTS & POLITICAL JOURNAL.
there is one other thing that IDS will be found guilty of in that he has failed to control ATOS and DWP staff in the implementation of the welfare reform bill
The majority of the DWP/ATOS staff i believe are doing their best for a successful assessment of the sick and disabled but like in any large organisation there will be those that have a very different agenda just like we have seen in the abuse of patients in hospitals and care homes
They will be those that are deliberately trying to harm the sick and disabled from within the DWP/ATOS and finding out the ring leaders will be know easy task and for myself i believe the damage is done and in going forward things will just be covered up unless Anne begg stays on the ball
I think we do need to get a Top Barrister on our side here, someone who knows how to go about pinning these people down, someone experienced in convicting criminals. The Labour party in general show a massive lack of political nous at times (or plain collusion), it would pay not to emulate them.
A top barrister /lawyer as used in the Hillsboro dissiaster is around £5000 per day so you could only afford a class action in which every one of the family’s who has suffered with a death comes together to pay the costs in a united class action against the government
you would be looking at an overall cost of millions as all of the deaths and the gathering of all the evidence will take years it would be the largest investigation this country has ever seen
you would have around 5000 solid cases to start with but the overall death toll is much higher. each family would need to take a bond out of at least £5000 to cover the costs in the first year alone as you would need at least a team of 50 lawyers looking at 5000 cases if you were to bring the action within the next five years
my feelings are is that no lawyer in this country has the scope or manpower for such a large investigation and this could give a green light to kill off all the sick and disabled over time if he calculated he would get away with it
one action on it’s own would cost around the £200000 spread over a 2 year time frame
I really hope Samuel Miller is reading this!
who is Samuel Miller mike ? there are not many if any that are even qualified to take any court action against the government on welfare reform that have resulted in a death and i have asked many but they have all said the same it’s very time consuming and very expensive hence no one has done so to date
the advice from the the law society to me was that they had no one on their books and could not recommend anyone at all so i know only too well this is a tough one to crack
killing a person through stress and knowing that by stressing them would kill them has not be tried in a court before in the uk so we are in uncharted waters to start with and I’m sure that is how IDS sees it as on that basis he has nothing to answer for and maybe never will ?
Samuel Miller is a gentleman who has been putting evidence about the Atos Deaths and the Coalition government’s harmful policies towards the sick and disabled before UN officials, with a view to getting a prosecution in the International Criminal Court.
It IS possible to get a prosecution and win it – but it takes time and tenacity.
thanks mike
well i wish him well with this huge task never before seen in the uk or indeed the EU
I sincerely hope he has some sort of security back up as this is very risky to his life ?
Goodness! You’re not suggesting the GOVERNMENT might try to… you know… OFF him, are you?
anything can happen mike and it would be very foolish to think otherwise. you only have to look at David Kelly (weapons expert) who died 2 days after giving evidence before the select committee
You just need to be careful if your on to a something big which has far reaching circumstances
In all honesty, you’re absolutely right; and I think the reference to the Kelly affair is timely.
IDS is a disgrace but the q+a session I fear will b in their favour as the questions asked will b answered with so much bullshit and the questions that really matter…the ones that should not be easily squirmed out of will not evan be asked. We want him and his party out of power BEFORE 2015!!!.
I apologise for the confusion that led to this Mike, and to all readers; in our defence we were asked to keep quiet re the final arrangements until they were published by parliament. this came after out initial info that IDS would be called in June.
Again sorry to all for the confusion
It is the officials who should have kept everybody informed about what was happening, in my opinion. As soon as it became clear that IDS would not be called in June, they should have publicised it, making it clear that he wasn’t off the hook and would have to account for himself later.
Considering the fact that they know at least 100,000 people want him to explain himself, I cannot understand why they kept quiet about the changes.
What worries me is that in the reply to the FOI request where we were given the 10,600 deaths information it explicitly says that there is no data for deaths after someone is found fit for work and taken off ESA. THOSE are the deaths we’re really most interested in, along with the few hundred stated as dying after being put in WRAG. In other words, the government has not bothered to count the bodies really, just like they haven’t bothered to do a cumulative impact assessment on total cuts affecting the disabled/sick.
That’s true, but they were also made aware that people wanted to know those figures – after the event for that particular release, but in good time for any update. Now they don’t want to provide any update.
It’s not looking good for them, is it?
http://liberalconspiracy.org/2013/07/11/dwp-quietly-ditches-stats-on-deaths-of-benefits-recipients/
just wanted to say that the 10,660 figure was from last year and the last i heard about 4wks ago it had passed 29,000 and four weeks before that was 23,000+. the disease named IDS is killing more people a day than any other disease. He should be punished severely. in the short time between your post and my reply another 5+ lives will have expired due to his onslaught. I believe someone calculated 26per day now die and that figure grows with every passing day and every new change.Joe bloggs would be thrown in jail for causing so much pain, suffering and deaths. So should this man and all his colleagues that have allowed this to continue. It is sickening.
Joanna, I’d like to know where you found your more recent figures. I’m currently awaiting the response to a FOI request for current fatality figures. If we can establish that his complacence has led, not just to any deaths at all, but to an increase in deaths, then we’ll surely have him.
26 a day is 182 a week, which is around a 150 per cent increase on last year. That should be enough – IF an official source corroborates what you’re saying.
Again, this only reinforces my belief that this government is hell bent on the survival of the fittest (richest), by using eugenics to get rid of the elderly, disabled, young, homeless, and the poor! In fact, genocide!
Reblogged this on stoleninnocence2012's Blog.
Ian duncan smith stood in parliament and stated the bedroom tax was proving to be a great success. Shows he is still lieing to parliament. He is surely dilusional aswell as anyone that agrees with him
Reblogged this on paultmillington and commented:
It’s about time
He’ll have some questions to answer on Wednesday morning. There’ll be toys and dummys flying around the house.
“Iain Duncan Smith, faces a grilling by MPs this week on universal credit’s spluttering start.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/08/universal-credit-fears-citizen-advice-survey
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