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attack, catholic, Christian, fact, Iain Duncan Smith, Islam, Jew, machete, murder, Muslim, peace, terror, uk statistics authority, Woolwich
I wasn’t going to mention this, but some commenters on this blog have already done so, and in that case I would rather have my opinion registered than leave people guessing.
It is too early to tell why two men drove a car into a third – who is believed to have been a serving soldier – then got out and attacked him with machetes – or at the very least, large bladed objects – dragged him into the road, and then danced around shouting admittedly Muslim-style slogans or got passers-by to film speeches they made about why they did it.
However, a friend of mine – who has been a member of the armed forces in the past – was so affected by what happened that he posted a message on Facebook to the effect that he wanted all Muslims killed.
This is what such attacks achieve. They don’t solve anything; they just perpetuate the misery.
I do not sympathise with my friend’s point of view. Even if this was the work of Muslims, those two people do not speak for all of Islam. I have encountered many Muslims during what is still a relatively brief life; some I have been privileged to have been able to call friends. I’ve also known several Jewish people whose company was also a delight. And earlier this week I attended a Catholic religious ceremony (a funeral) and felt very welcome.
My point? All these faiths are about peace.
A man standing on the street with bloodstained hands, telling us that women in his country have had to witness worse than what he has just done, has nothing to do with peace – and therefore nothing to do with religion.
It’s a trick, you see – pointing you in one direction so you don’t see what’s been happening in the other. Politicians do it all the time – and if you don’t think so, consider the UK Statistics Authority and its assertions about the number of times Iain Duncan Smith has parted company with the facts.
What happened in Woolwich was not rooted in religion; it was about violent crime, which is something that all religions abhor.
But it seems to me that, until we can eliminate the religious rhetoric, from all versions of what is going on, we are all – Christian, Muslim, whatever denomination we may be – going to have the hardest time bringing the murderers, and the murderers who demand the murders, to justice.
That’s all I have to say about it.
Mike Sivier's blog 
I agree that it is an atrocity, and the acts committed today were indefensible. But I agree that these men do not speak for all of Islam. Sadly a particular section of the mainstream press and certain political factions (you know), will pounce all over this story like a pack of hungry hyenas. Worse still I fear that so many people will listen to the way this story is used to demonise all Muslims, and to re-enforce racial prejudices.
I sincerely hope that the 2 men who committed this heinous act of violence are dealt with as harshly as possible by the justice system. But I also hope that people have the common sense to see these men as individuals, rather than examples of how all Muslims are.
. Anyways, the facts are a man has been brutally murdered, which is disgusting, unlawful and morally wrong whatever your religion or culture might be! To use religion as an excuse and a vehicle to pursue your agenda is not the way. We’re not doing this or saying these things out of religious motivation, it’s out of motivation for safety and future of mankind and a safer, more civil civilisation!
One thing that no one seems to speak much about, is that we of the uk are allowing our rogue government to wage illegal and horrific wars in various countries, where ‘our’ soldiers are killing and torturing these mainly muslim people. We are terrorists in the biggest sense of the world. Then, when a comparitive handful of british people are killed, we rise up saying how incredibly evil the murderers are.
It seems we have all lost any brain capacity to see the situation in a true light.
This is what the globalists want, they want to make chaos and hatred among all people. They knew there would be trouble when they started the mass immigration of muslims into britain, and especially while we wage war on their countries.
What’s happened to the brains of the british??
(I won’t touch on the fact that it’s looking like a staged event, like all the other staged, false flag events that the cia, mi5, mossad set up to present the trusty ‘problem, reaction, solution’ formula that works so well for the globalists. Let’s see what ‘solution’ comes in on the tail of this event… )
I totally agree and your last paragraph is especially relevant, it doesn’t take much to swing a Country towards the far right whoever is behind this. Already, individuals have acted and we need to keep very, very calm before we allow the MSM to spin the story.
The tension has been ratcheted up to hysteria levels because Cameron has been quick to attack the label “Terrorism” to this terrible murder. Terrorists by definition, aim to cause death indiscriminately to the general population. This incident was horrific and the fact it was carried out in broad daylight makes it seem even more so, but it is still a murder, nothing more, nothing less. There appears to be no intention to cause death indiscriminately and there were plenty of passers by who could have been attacked if this was their aim. No, the victim appeared to be an individual, perhaps targeted because he was a soldier and no other members of the public were attacked.
Quite why David Cameron is so keen to attach the terrorist label so quickly to this incident is a question that needs to be asked. By using the T word, he has lit the blue touch paper that could result in revenge killings of innocents.
Is he wanting to use this murder as an excuse to further curtail our freedoms justified by our eternal war against the terrorist bogeymen or is he merely hoping that by labelling it terrorism it will keep Conservative Party internal squabblings out of the headlines for a few days?
This will turn out to be another perfect opportunity for the politicians to get hold of this story, and in some way use it to remind us why we’re out there fighting this illegal war in Iraq, in Afghan……. We were the ones who stirred up the hornets nest by invading countries that we had no right to enter into in the first place…..
I know for sure that 99.99999% of Muslims in this country will be as shocked and disgusted at this as we are. Yet for sure, there are going to be masses of English pointing the finger directly at the Muslim faith for this
I am English myself, I’m shocked at what has happened… But this is actions of a group of criminals rather than a religion…. I hope that people see sense and do not react.
The problem is largely with the interpretation of the message of the Quran, Anyone who is a professional or informed person with a working knowledge of that book and the way in which it is written would be aware that there are two distinct phases of the Quran. The first being the volume written in Mecca when Mohammed was recieving visions from God (allah) and his messengers (Angels – like Gabriel). The message at that time was for toleration and understanding of all people.
Later when he relocated to the city of “Madenia” he was to progress to the level of warlord and the verses of the Quran from that period reflected the sense of need for a solid power-base. That part of the book was more aggressive and called for absolute loyalty from the the muslem membership. This portion is sometimes called the book of “swords” and is the body of text is used by fundementalists to promote hatred of the rest of humanity. The political ambitions of the preachers of radical Islam has encourage the belief that because the two books are pole opposites the later volume (swords) replaces the earlier volume.
Because these people have a “negative” charactor – psychopathic in quality the call for violent Jihad is largely self-serving. The problem with these radical views is they use the directive that the quaran is sacrosanct and cannot be questioned. As a method of gaining political power within the Islamic faith.
Before you think that politics and religion are not bedfellows consider the nature Christianity in the middle ages…that was a time when the Vatican and protestant
leaders were playing a “game of Thrones” and attempting to manipulating and control the actions and ideology of national kings and queens.
With the advent of revolution which is termed by the media “The Arab spring” in many middle Eastern nations. To understand the what is going on there…Firstly it is a time of great change as Islamic modernisers clash with conservative fundelmentalism.. The jihadist view has an element of racism to it (Hence the sectarian devide in Iraq with tit for tat attacks). after the religious differences there are tribal loyalties to also consider. Its quite a complex combination of motives and as such is never done justice by the anti muslim sentiment of soft to hard right-wingers in the western hemisphere.
The call for the middle of the road Muslims to spy on radical elements and inform the authorities of their plans. Whilst desirable is not with any equal presidence in and among the white european community. I mean do we do the same with our own radicals – the Nazi’s and Communists?
I’ll conclude here though there is much more that can be said, I’ll save that for another time.
A ‘thank you’ to Mr James Fletcher and Mr Steven Goodman. Level analytical heads at a time of boiling emotions… But I would hazard a guess that neither of you have spent much time in a Sharia controlled Muslim country…? I live and work in Saudi Arabia and have done so for more than fourteen years. I am an economic migrant prostituting my skills to the highest bidder. I abide by the laws of the land because to do otherwise may see me at best deported or worse….
Living amongst these sometimes very hospitable and generous people can be rewarding. But one quickly learns that there is no compromise here. There are no Churches, Synagogs or Buddhist or Seek temples. One cannot display signs of other faiths. After England won the Rugby World Cup in 2003 I foolishly changed my computer screen saver to the English flag with “England” written through it… I nearly lost my job! I had for a short time a poster of ‘Nottingham’ on the wall of my shared office. At the head of the poster was the Nottingham crest of which is two stags abreast a shield with crossed logs (crucifix). Everyday for a week, one unidentified colleague would place opaque sticky tape over the crest which I removed… I was told to take the picture down after a week.
These are small and insignificant examples of intolerance and religious dogma but please believe me when I say that the tolerant, moderate and open Muslims will never openly challenge the pious, dogmatic and intolerant within their religious community… and that is where the danger lay.
Moderate Islam has been unable to turn around their Jihadist brothers… In the same way, I believe, that Sinn Fein didn’t put too much effort into controlling the IRA. Tolerant and accommodating Britain is not ready for the blind obedience of extreme Islam and nothing and no one seems willing to try to tackle the problem… And trust me, placating words and mature, educated monologues about ‘not being representative of Islam’ and its only ‘a minority’ means nothing to an ideology that believes the West is weak and corrupt and NEEDS Islam to save them.
Violence, insanity and religomania are not confined to Islam: wicked and deranged men do bad things whether they consider themselves pious or not. The Koran advises Muslims that they should obey the laws of the land wherever they are and the atrocity that happened yesterday happened because two raging lunatics overcome by hate committed an appalling act of violence and then tried to martyr themselves.
Two criminals did a terrible thing.
As such they should be punished to the full extent of the law.
These criminals betrayed Islam.
Read what Gary Mitchel said (above) again very carefully. and then transfer it’s conclusion to ALL religion.
Thankyou…you’ve said it much better than I could…it’s about hate and violence not religion. A battle between opposing ideologies…
You’re right, violence is violence no matter the colour of the religious wrapping!
“Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
― Steven Weinberg
A wonderful day, newswise, for the government who happened to be in the worst week ever experienced by our unmandated coalition.
Just saying it…
Very well said, we should not see this as anything other than premeditated cold blooded murder, committed by two violent men, under the excuse of religion.
Whether this is seen as religious, political, criminal or insanity, the fact remains as Jef said, it was motivated by the fact that our government and previous governments have presided over the overthrow and mass killing of insurgents and innocent people in foreign countries.
Thank you Mike for once again saying all i would say myself on the matter, and I take your point about the “Trick”
It is very tragic that a man had to lose his life in such a manner on the streets of London.It must be awful for the man,s family.Bad enough that a loved one has died,but knowing the horrific way in which he died must be inconsolable.
But I do not see this as a act of Terrorism.More some disenchanted group who have jumped on the Jihad bandwagon.Most Muslims would be as outraged as most normal British Born citizens are at this event.
Watching the man,with blood stained hands speaking on TV,made me think he was detached from reality.To murder someone,in the most disgusting inhuman way,while trying to defend it rationally seems incomprehensible.
But for the Government,to portray this as a act that needs a National Security response,by calling Cobra together,and Cameron running home,which he never did at the Height of the 2011 riots.Seems to me something different entirely.Is it a attempt,to portray Cameron in some way to usurp UKIP.Is he,Cameron going to use this for a called for crackdown on immigrants.
This is the part I do not like.Politicians using someone,s tragic death for capital gain.That in itself is immoral and undignified.
Silver said…Seems to me something different entirely.Is it a attempt,to portray Cameron in some way to usurp UKIP.Is he,Cameron going to use this for a called for crackdown on immigrants….
Workhouse says…
I think it is going to be used for a whole lot more. Already we have calls for a crackdown on internet extremism. ( Define extremism, anyone who does not agree with our government perhaps, including Vox Political) The fact that the Police held back for an armed response team, could be used to justify all Police carrying guns. Then we may have more stop and search checkpoints as recently seen in West Bromwich at bus and train stations. After all the Government loves you and wants to protect you. Also the use by the MSM of the term Lone Wolf Extremists is also concerning, you do not have to belong to a group to be an extremist, nor by default do you have to be religious. I feel sure that the Government will use this horrendous crime to justify everything they can dream up. Never let a good crisis go to waste after all. Sincere and wholehearted sympathys to the family and friends of this poor man. I could not begin to understand, what they must be going through.
Maybe this will be used as an excuse to rachet back our freedom and/or persecute Muslims just for being Islamic. I wonder what jobs the murderers had? If they had been on benefits it would have been all over the press.